Curse

Winterclaw · Jun 30, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

A while ago, I made a post that els should get a few more water nukes to bring that skill line in synch with the other lines. A few people liked the idea, others didn't.

Thus we had this scenerio:
1. More water nukes were wanted for pvp spike, pve usefulness, and RP reasons.
2. Water already has some good hexes for pvp so improving the spike power might inbalance the line as a whole.
3. People were happy with the 2 nuking lines, 2 utility lines.

Thus I have this suggestion: Elementalist skill lines are divided wrong.

IMO I think the problem was dividing them by element instead of by effect. Now what's wrong with element you might ask. Well look at monks. They aren't divided between Dwayna powers and Balthie powers are they? Thier skill lines are divided by general effect. Look at mesmers and necros, generally speaking again it's by effect.

Here's where el's are the problem: they are divided up by the element instead of the effect of the skill or spell. Thus we get the problem of no Air AoE, almost no non-air AP... fire being largely aoe, ice lacking hitting powers of the others.

So here's what I'd like to suggest: Divide the elementalist skill lines by what the spells do instead of what element they are associated with.

For example this could be the 5 skill lines:
Energy storage: same as now
Nuking: this line contains most of your spam attacks and your single target nukes.
AoE: this would be where your firestorm, chain lightning, and ice spikes would be. Skills designed to attack several targets at once.
Elemental enhancement: this would have most of your enchantment skills like your conjure spells, your earth armor spells, etc
Elemental hexes: this would be where your MarkoR would be, your ice hexes, your glimmering mark, that sort of thing.

Thus we'd have the following out come: the skill lines would mostly remain the same but would allow people more or less to choose which element they prefer. IMO it'd be really cool if most of the skills were elemental neutral in your skill book and would become associated only with one element once you put it on your skill bar. For example Glimmering mark could become burning mark or dust mark but act the same save for the fact it'd need elemental damage of the right type to activate. Or you could have conjure element and choose earth once it is on your skill bar.

Chronos the Defiler · Jun 30, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Well look at monks. They aren't divided between Dwayna powers and Balthie powers are they?

"Dwayna powers" would most likely represent healing or protection whereas Balthazar would represent Smiting Prayers, so technically...yes actually they are :P

frojack · Jun 30, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Well Izzy has already said he's 'super happy' with Elementalists at the moment so don't get your hopes up.
I generally agree, the class is more or less fine (besides some earth magic issues and 2 second cast Blurred-wtf). Your idea of splitting the class up so you can 'use all the skills you want to use on one bar' is naive.
You would simultaneously destroy utility, current skill synergy, and create severe imbalance, turning the class into one where bad players can look like they're good by using all the 'cool' skills. Ridiculous...

All this for the sake of turning an already exceptionally good line into something you can 'nuke' with?

Note: Before anybody gets 'happy' I use water in pve as well. Just a lot less than the lines built for 'bull dozer'...

tenshi_strife · Jun 30, 2007, 07:51 AM // 07:51

hey wanna know a secret winterclaw they already divided the attributes by their effects, just not perfectly....

nuking = fire
aoe = WTF i thought nuking was aoe?????, well if you mean nuking as heavy single target damage *which makes no sense nukes are huge destructive booms* then air is the one with single target damage.
enhancements = earth
hexs = water

now i know they are not perfectly set up that way but it dont matter cause lets look at your example of monks.

now smiting is supposed to be all damage right..... then what about balths pendulum... thats kinda prot, same with reversal of damage... now prot is supposed to be all ally enchants and protects but we got pacifism which targets a foe and is a hex so yea that dont fit....

so not all attribute are perfectly split, and eles may be the worst split but they are split that way to make them usable, if you had to divide you attributes with nuking, for meteor shower, hexs for mark of rodgort, and single target for searing flames and glowing gaze...... now that does not make sense to me......

Trevor · Jun 30, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

OH MY GOD.

Having it lined up by element satisfies both the PvP utilitarian attitude, as well as the PvE overly-realistic why-wouldn't-spirits-trigger-SR attitude.

It's a horrible idea, go home.

Enix · Jun 30, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Yeah, pretty bad idea bra.

It only makes sense deviding skills by their elements. Meteor shower and meteor belong in Earth, imho considering they are ROCKS in SPACE (similar to the EARTH), but that will probably never change. I would like to see Air get a mild AoE benifit, it just cant compete in high end pve (it does base itself around freaking lightning strikes = irl AoE). Water is pretty useless in PvE, except 1 skill here or there. Earth has become psudo useful with Sandstorm and a few other NF skills. Still dosent compete with Fire for raw AoE damage tho.

linh · Jun 30, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Here's where el's are the problem: they are divided up by the element instead of the effect of the skill or spell. Thus we get the problem of no Air AoE, almost no non-air AP... fire being largely aoe, ice lacking hitting powers of the others.

I still see no problem at all with Elementalist. It is pretty well-balanced, diversity, and useful in both PvE and PvP.
Your "problems" above are ridiculous, and redesigning the class will totally destroy it.

Antheus · Jun 30, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

"Problem" with elementalists is only that most builds are boring to play due to complete specialization.

Other than that, fire is a very decent team-based AoE. Earth still makes for some very nice tanking builds. Water gets used in some PvP. And various primary/secondary ele combos work quite well as well.

But ultimately, eles are quite boring.

tenshi_strife · Jun 30, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

what eles are not boring.... maybe in your eyes but i have been playing an ele for 2 years and that sall i play, i find eles to be the most entertaining and useful class of them all. has the most utility to damage balance of any class, and has the ability to almost anything other classes can do with minimal drawback.

eles are fine, more than fine, as they are. i do believe that eles are the only class that have reached this level of synergy and i am quite happy with them.

HawkofStorms · Jul 01, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Eh, no need not complicate a system that already makes sense.

Dean Harper · Jul 01, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

I actually like the way Eles are set up at the moment. I do think water needs a boost, with more AoE spells, and better nukes, but there is no reason to split the attributes that way. Like Frojack said, all the noobs would be able to use all the "good" skills with investment in only one attribute. Also, you have to look at the skills that are both AoE AND Nuking, such as Star Burst. Now where would that skill fit in?

/notsigned